Medicare for all

nick77

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"Oh gee, the entire argument that 99% of Americans will save thousands (or tens of thousands if a business owner) is now totally false because the people supporting the evidence are Bernie supporters"

lol

That's like saying Trump is innocent because something Hillary did.
 

viviajm

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Imagine getting a tax cut for nearly $6k every year. But wait! There's more! Also having the piece of mind you'll never get kicked off health care. Never getting denied treatment. Never going bankrupt over injury, accident, or illness.

The beats of burdens would vanished overnight. Suicide rates would drop overnight. Depression rates would drop overnight.

The number of people having those fear
Tlh
Imagine getting a tax cut for nearly $6k every year. But wait! There's more! Also having the piece of mind you'll never get kicked off health care. Never getting denied treatment. Never going bankrupt over injury, accident, or illness.

The beats of burdens would vanished overnight. Suicide rates would drop overnight. Depression rates would drop overnight.

The number of people having those fears and stressed out over that but is against this is ZERO.
s and stressed out over that but is against this is ZERO.
So this is predicated on 4% additional income tax? For a family of how many or per individual? And in addition provide for thos with no income to tax? What about the people that already have healthcare through employers? What about choices of hospitals and doctors that we enjoy in this country? Why would the elderly want to go a crappy system like they have outside of the USA?
 

nick77

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So this is predicated on 4% additional income tax? For a family of how many or per individual? And in addition provide for thos with no income to tax? What about the people that already have healthcare through employers? What about choices of hospitals and doctors that we enjoy in this country? Why would the elderly want to go a crappy system like they have outside of the USA?
I've discussed this about 100 times, funny that this most staunchest opponents 1) don't know what they're arguing against and 2) repeatedly refuse to read about any information

But here we go again, please read it:

One of the multiple options for funding this (there's a 7 page document, I'd find the link but I know the number of people that would read is it zero) is after $30k or so of income, the individual pays 4% per individual and twice that for joint I believe, employers pay a I think, 2 percent additional on payroll tax.

Employers? Guess what, they are no longer spending hundreds of dollars a month per employee. They are no longer spending hundreds of hours a year working with plan administrators and researching and negotiating deals.

There's just one payer. The US gov't and it's not out to profit.

Existing insurance?? Would you really WANT to pay co-pays, deductibles, premiums?!?! Would you really WANT to have the option of being denied treatment at any time or being kicked off insurance at any time?!?!?

Do you really WANT people to stay in miserable and toxic jobs because that's their ONLY option to have insurance? Good grief.

99% of the people with taxable income will save thousands every year regardless.

If you think that is bullshit then you've just blown a massive hole into the 'the middle class is burdened by taxes and we need tax cuts' argument.

Anyone against M4A is against giving the working taxpayer an essential net tax cut overall by the tune of thousands of dollars a year.

The argument against living wages because it hurts the business owners now has a massive hole in it, because anyone against M4A is against giving employers a break to the tune of hundreds of dollars per employee.

One tiny example, a restaurant owner was profiled that had a dozen employees. He paid out $54k/year to subsidize health care benefits. He had to spend hours working with plan administrators and research. He gave himself a salary of $35k/year.

Under M4A he'd recover nearly all of subsidy and he could reinvest that into his business and into his salary.

Im pretty sure I've detailed all the funding options in this very thread, all I know is the one consistent thread: people knock Bernie's M4A without understanding it and just assume its taking all the money away from the rich. You yourself said it didn't even cover hearing aids which Bernie's plan does, you were just equating the current implementation of Medicare but just dropping the age requirement, which is not the case.
 

Hawker-2001

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He has every idea. WTF are you talking about? He's looking purely at numbers, REMEMBER THIS IS A GIVEN IN THESE SCENARIOS WHEN YOU CRUNCH NUMBERS.
And what exactly is the basis for the percentage. This guy basically said he'd save money if the rate increase was 4%....well no shit. If it was a 50% decrease, he'd make money too. That doesn't mean that either circumstance is remotely going to happen. You don't nationalize a trillion dollar industry and guarantee benefits to 350M people and only increase the tax rate by 4%. Completely ridiculous.
 

viviajm

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What would happen with M4A would be the same thing that happened to 'the great society" program. With it they had to cut expenses so they gutted out the programs that helped people get out of welfare. They are left now with a program that does nothing to correct the is situation of receivers. M4A would do the same. Everyone would supposedly get care, but cuts would have to be made so the question would be at whose expense? The wealthy would get "boutique" medical care and the rest of us would have ours dumbed down to the ;owest common denominator. As I nave posted before-what makes America really work is opportunities and choices we have. Take that away and we will diminish like so many other countrues. And before you brag about healthcare in Europe, they offer less to seniors by far than this country. Number 2-they coild offer squat and we could offer more here, if they paid their fair share of defense.
 
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Hawker-2001

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Hawker-2001

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I'd like to remind the viewers at home that @Hawker-2001 still, to this day, defends insurance companies with CEOs making record profits and executive bonuses, that deny treatment on cancer patients because it would impact their balance sheet.
And I would like to remind the viewers that nick is a notorious liar and all-around scumbag that can't talk intelligently about healthcare because his head is up Bernies ass so far that he breathes through Bernies belly button.
 

nick77

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And I would like to remind the viewers that nick is a notorious liar and all-around scumbag that can't talk intelligently about healthcare because his head is up Bernies ass so far that he breathes through Bernies belly button.
lol you don't even deny anymore that you defend cancer patients being kicked off treatment so preserve some profits and possibly a couple bux in your 401k.

Who's the scumbag again?
 

bjabrad

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I'd like to remind the viewers at home that @Hawker-2001 still, to this day, defends insurance companies with CEOs making record profits and executive bonuses, that deny treatment on cancer patients because it would impact their balance sheet.
I wasn’t aware that insurance companies were charities. When this info gets out their stock is going to crash along with the US economy.
 

viviajm

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I wasn’t aware that insurance companies werlooks for profits. e charities. When this info gets out their stock is going to crash along with the US economy.
Somehow the left has been convinced that profits are bad. Businesses are not supposed co-ops except where it is by choice, such as with agriculture. Porofits lead to growth, stability, and trickle down. Everyone shares. Companies utilize the tax codes as key method of being profitable. This country was not built on comapnies going broke.
 

viviajm

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And the minimum wage was 45 cents. I made 1.25 per hour in 1966 while at KU. My first job after college at a fortune 500 company was 525.00 per month. People worked hard and improved their lot. Today the young want it now.
 

cornstalk

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I've discussed this about 100 times, funny that this most staunchest opponents 1) don't know what they're arguing against and 2) repeatedly refuse to read about any information

But here we go again, please read it:

One of the multiple options for funding this (there's a 7 page document, I'd find the link but I know the number of people that would read is it zero) is after $30k or so of income, the individual pays 4% per individual and twice that for joint I believe, employers pay a I think, 2 percent additional on payroll tax.

Employers? Guess what, they are no longer spending hundreds of dollars a month per employee. They are no longer spending hundreds of hours a year working with plan administrators and researching and negotiating deals.

There's just one payer. The US gov't and it's not out to profit.

Existing insurance?? Would you really WANT to pay co-pays, deductibles, premiums?!?! Would you really WANT to have the option of being denied treatment at any time or being kicked off insurance at any time?!?!?

Do you really WANT people to stay in miserable and toxic jobs because that's their ONLY option to have insurance? Good grief.

99% of the people with taxable income will save thousands every year regardless.

If you think that is bullshit then you've just blown a massive hole into the 'the middle class is burdened by taxes and we need tax cuts' argument.

Anyone against M4A is against giving the working taxpayer an essential net tax cut overall by the tune of thousands of dollars a year.

The argument against living wages because it hurts the business owners now has a massive hole in it, because anyone against M4A is against giving employers a break to the tune of hundreds of dollars per employee.

One tiny example, a restaurant owner was profiled that had a dozen employees. He paid out $54k/year to subsidize health care benefits. He had to spend hours working with plan administrators and research. He gave himself a salary of $35k/year.

Under M4A he'd recover nearly all of subsidy and he could reinvest that into his business and into his salary.

Im pretty sure I've detailed all the funding options in this very thread, all I know is the one consistent thread: people knock Bernie's M4A without understanding it and just assume its taking all the money away from the rich. You yourself said it didn't even cover hearing aids which Bernie's plan does, you were just equating the current implementation of Medicare but just dropping the age requirement, which is not the case.
 

nick77

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https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-...22-studies-agree-medicare-for-all-saves-money

22 studies all agree that Medicare For All saves money.

22.

Not 20.
Not 21.

22.

Yes, even the Mercatus study which is funded by the Koch Brothers. To this day no one on here has addressed that or had an answer for that.

M4A is a market capitalist's wet dream. It's fiscally conservative too. Yet some on here have been trained and conditioned to believe otherwise because a small group of lobbyists have done their jobs and done it very well.
 

viviajm

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There are 120 million people getting health insurance through an employer. Every citizen over 65 has medicare. Bernie wants to roll everyone into the present medicare program. Why in the hell would any of these groups want oir insurance screwed with by a communist, socialist, marxist or whatever he is. I for one don't want him to touch my medicare. Dumbing everything down cannot possibly raise anyone up. Get rid of the ACA by incentivising busnesses and institutions that don't offer healthcare to offer it. Of course standing at a dais making sound bites about paying it via-------isn't a feasible solution. It's too bad education in this country has been so dumbed down.
 

Hawker-2001

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There are 120 million people getting health insurance through an employer. Every citizen over 65 has medicare. Bernie wants to roll everyone into the present medicare program. Why in the hell would any of these groups want oir insurance screwed with by a communist, socialist, marxist or whatever he is. I for one don't want him to touch my medicare. Dumbing everything down cannot possibly raise anyone up. Get rid of the ACA by incentivising busnesses and institutions that don't offer healthcare to offer it. Of course standing at a dais making sound bites about paying it via-------isn't a feasible solution. It's too bad education in this country has been so dumbed down.
Amen
 

nick77

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22 studies shows M4A will save money. Koch Brothers study shows it saves trillions.

Every single employer will no longer have to spend hundreds of dollars per month per employee to subsidize their employees health care.

They can reinvest it into the business. You all have made that argument one hundred times on here when you bitched about minimum wage/living wages. You all said one hundred times it's an unfair burden on the business owners, they need money to reinvest into the business.

Welp, M4A does just not that.

And it's not just hundreds of dollars per month per employee. They save countless hours negotiating with insurance companies to provide benefit plans and options.

This is a massive burden. Many small businesses have to outsource this. One employee with a known condition could really just crucify the small business owner.

You all know I'm right and this is smart, sensible, and fiscally responsible and conservative.

At this point you can't admit your wrong. So you're going to bitch about socialism all the while you're supporting socialism for the rich and the redistribution of the wealth from the poor and the middle class to the rich in the process.

22 studies.
Not 21.
Not 20.

22.
 

!hawk!

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He vivi, I don’t know if you saw this but here it is

22 studies shows M4A will save money. Koch Brothers study shows it saves trillions.

Every single employer will no longer have to spend hundreds of dollars per month per employee to subsidize their employees health care.

They can reinvest it into the business. You all have made that argument one hundred times on here when you bitched about minimum wage/living wages. You all said one hundred times it's an unfair burden on the business owners, they need money to reinvest into the business.

Welp, M4A does just not that.

And it's not just hundreds of dollars per month per employee. They save countless hours negotiating with insurance companies to provide benefit plans and options.

This is a massive burden. Many small businesses have to outsource this. One employee with a known condition could really just crucify the small business owner.

You all know I'm right and this is smart, sensible, and fiscally responsible and conservative.

At this point you can't admit your wrong. So you're going to bitch about socialism all the while you're supporting socialism for the rich and the redistribution of the wealth from the poor and the middle class to the rich in the process.

22 studies.
Not 21.
Not 20.

22.
 

cornstalk

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22 studies shows M4A will save money. Koch Brothers study shows it saves trillions.

Every single employer will no longer have to spend hundreds of dollars per month per employee to subsidize their employees health care.

They can reinvest it into the business. You all have made that argument one hundred times on here when you bitched about minimum wage/living wages. You all said one hundred times it's an unfair burden on the business owners, they need money to reinvest into the business.

Welp, M4A does just not that.

And it's not just hundreds of dollars per month per employee. They save countless hours negotiating with insurance companies to provide benefit plans and options.

This is a massive burden. Many small businesses have to outsource this. One employee with a known condition could really just crucify the small business owner.

You all know I'm right and this is smart, sensible, and fiscally responsible and conservative.

At this point you can't admit your wrong. So you're going to bitch about socialism all the while you're supporting socialism for the rich and the redistribution of the wealth from the poor and the middle class to the rich in the process.

22 studies.
Not 21.
Not 20.

22.
I do not think you would change something because it might save or make you more money sometimes your better to just be satisfied with what you got or person would be changing jobs, getting different car, buying new house or even getting different partner that how I fill with medicare, I would even pay more money if that is what it takes to leave it alone.
 

!hawk!

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I do not think you would change something because it might save or make you more money sometimes your better to just be satisfied with what you got or person would be changing jobs, getting different car, buying new house or even getting different partner that how I fill with medicare, I would even pay more money if that is what it takes to leave it alone.
We can’t help it if you’re mentally ill, yet.
 

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