Medicare for all

Discussion in 'The Slant Political Board' started by viviajm, May 6, 2019.

  1. viviajm

    viviajm Ring of Honor
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    As I look at the proposals for "Medicare For All" I see the wording "for Residents". "Residents" suggests "legals". My questions for those of you on the left are 1. Do you agree with this restriction or not and 2. Do you want the program to utilize the present healthcare system of the choices we now have?

    There is also a suggested plan that would offer a medicare type offering through the ACA. As someone on medicare this seems to be the most feasible solution. While there are costs it would solidify and strengthen the ACA, while should be something that could and should be bi-partisan. It would have costs that the far left would balk at, but would provide a lot of options.
     
    1 viviajm, May 6, 2019
    Last edited: May 6, 2019
  2. nick77

    nick77 All-Conference
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    legal residents, green cards, etc that are not US citizens should absolutely have access to a M4A healthcare system, if that's what you're asking.

    But I also believe that tourists and illegals should be helped in emergencies. Friend of mine is a Volvo dealer and went to Sweden for work. He broke his leg, they set it, gave him drugs, tests, etc, his out of pocket was well under a hundred bucks and he's not paying "half his paycheck" into the system on taxes. Should absolutely be the same here.
     
  3. RMHawk

    RMHawk All-American
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    My Board Chair and his wife went to Ireland. Before leaving they were set to buy traveler health policy. They were told no need. As soon as they cleared customs they were covered under the Irish version of Medicare. Ours should do the same for all Nick mentioned except only emergencies for illegals.
     
  4. nick77

    nick77 All-Conference
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    There's a caravan of Americans crossing into Canada to buy affordable life saving drugs right now. It's way cheaper to trek as far as it takes to buy the same prescription drugs and as many of it as possible.
     
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  5. nick77

    nick77 All-Conference
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    We are already in the latest stage..

    @Hawker-2001 please defend this. I want to hear your defense.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Hawker-2001

    Hawker-2001 All-American
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    You gave me three lines of what must be a longer letter. Give the me the whole letter and maybe I can provide a more educated reply.

    But, as long we're contemplating possibilities, here are a couple reasons why that could happen.
    1. The patient/facility/physician has not provided the proper documentation to the ins company; provide the info, including the diagnosis and the answer could completely change, ie a paperwork snafu.
    2. Maybe a hospital stay is not necessary. If the patient has a cancerous lesion on their skin that can be removed outpatient, why would you admit them into an inpatient setting? it's outlandishly expensive and completely unnecessary.

    There are other more exotic possibilities but either one of these would explain it.
     
  7. nick77

    nick77 All-Conference
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    I think the highlighted part is telling. Imagine an insurer telling you that it has deemed your cancer not a medical necessity.

    So, you'd have no problems going up to a family and telling them that point blank to their face, right?
     
  8. bjabrad

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    Hate to be the nit picker here but they were saying that the hospital "stay" may not be medically necessary. I'm no medial language expert but I wonder if they are insinuating that outpatient care is an option rather than staying at a hospital for care?
     
  9. jayhawk_93

    jayhawk_93 All-Conference
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    Private insurance in this country is so great that they denied physical therapy to the father of a good friend of mine who is recovering from surgery and chemo. What was the great private insurance company's reasoning? He was able to walk 50 feet down the hospital hallway...with a walker....with the help of nurse. Nah, he didn't need any therapy at all. Good to go!

    I don't pretend to have all the answers to fix the current state of healthcare in this country, but it SUCKS!!!! Not only the situation I described above, but let's talk about waiting time. That's always the complaint for single payer coverage in other countries. It took nearly 3 months for my wife to get an MRI on her leg to diagnose a problem she's been having. This is after the doctor recommended an MRI after my wife met with the doctor. No, no! Not good enough for our great private insurance company. The insurance company required a peer-to-peer meeting with the doctor. Then and only then, again after 3 months of RICE (Rest. Ice. Compression. Elevation) treatment the INSURANCE prescribed, did they approve the MRI. After the MRI that actually diagnosed the real issue it turns out that RICE treatment was completely the wrong thing to do. Thanks for that! It's awesome that the private insurance companies now get to play doctor and prescribe treatment.

    I used to think the talk of death panels was absurd. Not anymore. I don't think they're far away with the current system.
     
    9 jayhawk_93, Jul 22, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2019
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  10. nick77

    nick77 All-Conference
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    Thanks for sharing this.
     
  11. Hawker-2001

    Hawker-2001 All-American
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    I think the highlighted part tells you jack squat. And, to clarify, the insurer did not say the person's cancer was not a medical necessity...they said the hospital stay for cancer care is not a medical necessity. There's a lot of difference there. And there are any number of reasons what that is legitimate.

    BTW, I gave you a few reasons why that statement could be legit, and you completely ignored them. Did you actually want a response or were you looking for something to beat your drum about?

    As for saying that to a family...pal...it happens every day and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. The fact that you completely misinterpreted the statement is more telling than anything else.
     
  12. nick77

    nick77 All-Conference
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    You have no soul.
     
  13. nick77

    nick77 All-Conference
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  14. Hawker-2001

    Hawker-2001 All-American
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    It's called the real world, try living in it. I should have known you weren't interested in a real discussion.
     
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  15. cornstalk

    cornstalk Freshman
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    I think they would need to adjust the reimbursement for doctors and hospital for the medicare for all under 65 or hospitals and doctors will not be able to stay open, they really knock the bill lower
     
  16. bjabrad

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    WTF???
     
  17. bjabrad

    bjabrad Hall of Fame
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    You just threw the first and second stone in this conversation. What's the point in having a conversation if one party can't restrain themselves from childish emotional outbursts?
     
  18. Hawker-2001

    Hawker-2001 All-American
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    That's what passes for discussion from nick.
     
  19. nick77

    nick77 All-Conference
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    He was condescending from the very beginning. Always is, always will be. I resorted to satire to lampoon in retaliation.

    I mean, I could've called him a bitch, but that would've been uncalled for.
     
  20. Hawker-2001

    Hawker-2001 All-American
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    You couldn't refute my post, so you threw a tantrum. Stop acting like it was any more than that.
     
  21. nick77

    nick77 All-Conference
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    lmao. Far from it. I lampooned you because you're a caricature.

    You would straight up tell someone with cancer they are denied services ordered by a doctor because it's not medically needed with no qualms about it.

    You would get upset and annoyed when said cancer victim pushed back.

    This only exists in Hollywood, normally.

    What's your defense for a $540k dialysis treatment? It's good for your 401k again? It should cost more?
     
  22. Hawker-2001

    Hawker-2001 All-American
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    You really don't even bother to read any of this do you? If you want to be this type of village idiot, let me know. Or better yet leave me out of it. I can watch you self-destruct from the sideline.
     
  23. bjabrad

    bjabrad Hall of Fame
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    Being condescending is a different league from your global thermonuclear war that you dropped on him. It's not close. Time for decaf bro.
     
  24. RMHawk

    RMHawk All-American
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    Insurance bureaucrats have richly earned their status as unreasonable drones. You may remember my story of our confrontation with them over my wife’s cancer treatments. That group of insurance dolts was the opposite of what is described in this thread - an outpatient chemo was going to be denied coverage unless it was to be done in a hospital stay. Our oncologist disabused them of their moronic view when he told them he would be glad to enter my wife into the hospital and charge them for that instead of the less expensive outpatient treatment he prescribed. Insurance overheads are higher than Medicare and are populated by some real pieces of work.
     
    24 RMHawk, Jul 22, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2019
  25. nick77

    nick77 All-Conference
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    [​IMG]

    Single Payer is the fiscally responsible thing to do.
     
  26. Hawker-2001

    Hawker-2001 All-American
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    The problem is Single payer will make it worse. I know you're going to throw the admin % for Medicare out there as proof... but when you add 200M more people to M4A, they won't be able to maintain that percentage.

    Besides what you don't include here is the reason why the growth in administrative staff is happening. It's because of additional gov't reporting requirements and the increased requirements for billing. Hell, the amount of reporting required for Medicare cost reporting alone would curl your hair...not to mention DSH reporting and non-profit tax filings.
     
  27. nick77

    nick77 All-Conference
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    It's wildly popular, every industrialized nation uses it to great success and it will save us trillions of dollars.

    It's the fiscally responsible thing to do.

    The most conservative of the conservatives around the world laugh at people like you when it comes to this topic.
     
  28. Hawker-2001

    Hawker-2001 All-American
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    1. It's wildly popular until you tell the people how much it costs...then its not wildly popular.
    2. Every industrialized nation DOES NOT use it to great success...in fact many nations piss and moan about it, including a couple that are considering discontinuing it. But otherwise, yeah, great success.
    3. You have jack squat to show that its the 'fiscally responsible thing to do'.
    4. Couldn't possibly give less shits what conservatives thing, let alone idiot liberals. Neither could fight themselves out of an intellectual paper bag.
     
  29. nick77

    nick77 All-Conference
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    It would save trillions of dollars.

    You just don't want to believe.

    You're not even a conservative by yesterday's standards.

    The conservatives are ashamed of you.
     
  30. Hawker-2001

    Hawker-2001 All-American
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    It would cost us trillions...stop being stupid. And I have never BEEN a conservative, so it doesn't matter to me what conservatives think.
     
  31. nick77

    nick77 All-Conference
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    I never said it wouldn't cost us trillions. Damn homie, you are batting .000 today when it comes to reading comprehension.

    You're blind rage is fogging your vision.

    It will, though, save us trillions, too.
     
  32. Hawker-2001

    Hawker-2001 All-American
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    So it'll cost us trillions while also saving us trillions? You need a math lesson and an economics lesson. Or a smack up the head, but that hasn't worked in the past.
     
  33. nick77

    nick77 All-Conference
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    Yes.

    What part of this do you not understand?
     
  34. Hawker-2001

    Hawker-2001 All-American
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    Considering both can't be true? All of it. Hence your need for a math lesson.
     
  35. nick77

    nick77 All-Conference
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    Dude you don't get it do you?

    I've given you the rope and let you hang yourself long enough.

    The Koch brothers own study showed over tens years the currently projected cost of health care expenditures in the U.S. of $59.4 trillion would dip to $57.6 trillion under the M4A plan.

    Cut out 95% of those administrators and also negotiate directly in bulk.

    It's pretty simple stuff.

    This is your "Free shit" argument out the window. This is how you pay for it, by saving trillions to start, and even more later.

    Are you feeling ok? If you're getting double-vision you should see a doctor.
     
  36. Hawker-2001

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    The problem is the Koch brothers don't know dick about healthcare...neither does the gov't really. The ACA was supposed to cut cost too...didn't happen. In fact healthcare costs went up faster under the ACA. But M4A will do it right? GMAFB.

    The gov't has never been and will never be more efficient than private industry. Medicare is considered more efficient but only because of the laws passed on private companies don't apply to Medicare. You can act like that doesn't mean anything, but its proof that gov't is the reason that healthcare costs are going up so much. Maybe if gov't and you would pull your collectives heads out your asses, we might be able to make things better without costing us trillions of dollars more.

    But to your points, Medicare and Medicaid, ie the gov't, has been able to negotiate directly in bulk since they got into the game 70 yrs ago...they have consistently declined to do it. Cut out 95% of administrators? Since when has the gov't EVER tried to be more efficient?! The answer is never...that all sounds good on the logo, but reality is that it would never happen. But yes, in this never-world of fantasy healthcare, that sounds like a great idea.
     
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  37. nick77

    nick77 All-Conference
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    M4A will save trillions of dollars and there's nothing you can do about that, I'm sorry that offends you, but if Bernie is elected that will happen.

    It will be a single payer system, a fiscally conservative, responsible system.
     
  38. Hawker-2001

    Hawker-2001 All-American
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    If that happens, god help us all. I knew there was a reason I'm putting all my retirement in a Roth....to protect it from political morons like yourself.
     
  39. nick77

    nick77 All-Conference
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    You would need help because allegedly you work in health care and you'd might be out of a job.

    But you've got boot straps, you'll be ok.

    Tens of millions of Americans will have access to healthcare :)

    I'm not sorry that offends you.
     
  40. nick77

    nick77 All-Conference
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    What a rough day for Hawker-2001. Today he learned you can go from spending trillions on healthcare over a time period, to spending less trillions over the same period while covering every citizen - just like every other industrialized nation in the world.
     

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