I recorded a 2 hour debate between 2 educators that have Doctorates and have written much on the topic. It was on C-Span and well organized. I intend to watch it several times more. Of note: their definitions of each and the key fault of each I found enlightening. I also found interesting that the heated comments on these topics on Slant forum are not based on realism. We just have heated opinions. I would think that C-Span would have a library where this could be downloaded (or YouTube).