With all of the coaching changes that have happened, I have been curious how some of these places recruit the JUCO ranks after only having been on the job a short period of time. Still roughly a month away from National Signing Day, so some more kids JUCO kids could be added to classes, but so far it has been an interesting mixed bag of results on this.
Some schools have pursued the JUCO ranks fairly aggressively since joining a new staff. Matt Campbell has landed 5 JUCO kids since he took the ISU job. Mike Norvell has landed 4 since taking the Memphis job. UCF has landed 3 since Scott Frost took the UCF job, but may be targeting more since he hired a former JUCO HC to be an assistant on his staff. Even Fuente has landed two since he took the VaTech job, which may not seem like a lot, but note that this was the first JUCO I could find VaTech taking since 2003 (not counting prep school kids).At this point in time last year, Beaty had taken 4 new JUCO kids (Stewart, Kinner, Banks, Rhodes - Smith, Bates, and Dezir were already committed) and he ended up taking one more in the class with Ogletree, so that is about in line/just a tad more than what some of these guys did in a short period of time.
Now some new coaches haven't looked to the JUCO ranks much and sometimes none at all. I think that could be due to a number of reasons - the school hasn't typically recruited JUCOs because of academic standards at that school, new coach doesn't have many JUCO ties, that school already has a lot of solid commits from the previous staff, or something else. But I do see a bit of a trend, although the sample size is small. Those schools above (not counting VaTech) are coming off a really bad season and/or need to replace some playmakers right away.
This can lead to the whole panic move discussion, which I do think is warranted. Is going after JUCO kids after a new hire a panic move? I think that can be debated some. I think in the above situations, these new coaches want to either make a statement in their first season by improving quite a bit in that first season for teams that were really bad or want to maintain what the previous coach did in the situation(s) where the previous coach left after a good season. With KU this past season, not necessarily just the JUCO kids, but with some of the summer additions as well that were added (not all) I do think it is fair to say they were panic moves. I also think given this past season's results it was a bad move to bring some (not all) of them in like they did. Many of us felt that way at the time and I think we can see why. But the important thing now is move past that and learn from this experience.
So that brings me to the two points I am trying to get at here, of which I am curious to see with these schools above if it changes their approach going forward.
1.) How coaches react to the plan of the first rushed class is crucial
With Weis, we saw him double down...and it really costed us in the second class. With the guys above, I am really curious to see if they follow up the class with less, same, or more JUCO kids in their first full class. With Beaty, I don't think he has doubled down...I think he has either maintained or gone slightly less. He has taken three JUCOs so far. I think he could add another one with Toyous Avery to give them four. That would give you two guys that can immediately help up front and two guys with three years left to help in the DB group (of which I think Davis and Avery would be immediate impact guys). So of the four, two of them are three year guys (and if Robinson redshirts that would be four). To me, that isn't a sign of doubling down
2.) Going after JUCO kids is not a bad thing
This might be one of, if not the, things that disappoints me the most from the Weis era. A lot of KU fans I know don't want to go after JUCO kids because of what happened under Weis and the position we are in now because of that gamble. At the same time, we have had some pretty solid kids at KU come from the JUCO ranks. The key for this is two fold - A.) understand your roster situation better than Weis did B.) go after the "right" JUCO kids. Looking at A.) - an example of this is we can't go after ten 2-year JUCO kids next year or we will be in a numbers crunch again really soon because of how the roster is setup. Looking at B.) I think after next year you start going after 3 - 5 JUCO kids per 25 man class and really do some due diligence on these kids to make sure they can handle D1 life. Hopefully by then we are getting in a position where we can take JUCO guys that compliment what we already have or are guys that we struggle recruiting out of HS and are not taking a JUCO guy because of need.
So in the 2017 class, if we are taking a bunch of JUCO kids, I will go nuts because to me it is a sign of further panic and isn't a smart move with our roster breakdown. But after then, going after JUCOs isn't a bad thing. Watch how some of these new coaches handle the situation the next few years. They are targetting JUCO kids initially for different reasons. Maybe none of them go crazy with JUCO guys like we did under Weis...but if they do, go ahead and put down a bet that that coach won't be at that school much longer...
Some schools have pursued the JUCO ranks fairly aggressively since joining a new staff. Matt Campbell has landed 5 JUCO kids since he took the ISU job. Mike Norvell has landed 4 since taking the Memphis job. UCF has landed 3 since Scott Frost took the UCF job, but may be targeting more since he hired a former JUCO HC to be an assistant on his staff. Even Fuente has landed two since he took the VaTech job, which may not seem like a lot, but note that this was the first JUCO I could find VaTech taking since 2003 (not counting prep school kids).At this point in time last year, Beaty had taken 4 new JUCO kids (Stewart, Kinner, Banks, Rhodes - Smith, Bates, and Dezir were already committed) and he ended up taking one more in the class with Ogletree, so that is about in line/just a tad more than what some of these guys did in a short period of time.
Now some new coaches haven't looked to the JUCO ranks much and sometimes none at all. I think that could be due to a number of reasons - the school hasn't typically recruited JUCOs because of academic standards at that school, new coach doesn't have many JUCO ties, that school already has a lot of solid commits from the previous staff, or something else. But I do see a bit of a trend, although the sample size is small. Those schools above (not counting VaTech) are coming off a really bad season and/or need to replace some playmakers right away.
This can lead to the whole panic move discussion, which I do think is warranted. Is going after JUCO kids after a new hire a panic move? I think that can be debated some. I think in the above situations, these new coaches want to either make a statement in their first season by improving quite a bit in that first season for teams that were really bad or want to maintain what the previous coach did in the situation(s) where the previous coach left after a good season. With KU this past season, not necessarily just the JUCO kids, but with some of the summer additions as well that were added (not all) I do think it is fair to say they were panic moves. I also think given this past season's results it was a bad move to bring some (not all) of them in like they did. Many of us felt that way at the time and I think we can see why. But the important thing now is move past that and learn from this experience.
So that brings me to the two points I am trying to get at here, of which I am curious to see with these schools above if it changes their approach going forward.
1.) How coaches react to the plan of the first rushed class is crucial
With Weis, we saw him double down...and it really costed us in the second class. With the guys above, I am really curious to see if they follow up the class with less, same, or more JUCO kids in their first full class. With Beaty, I don't think he has doubled down...I think he has either maintained or gone slightly less. He has taken three JUCOs so far. I think he could add another one with Toyous Avery to give them four. That would give you two guys that can immediately help up front and two guys with three years left to help in the DB group (of which I think Davis and Avery would be immediate impact guys). So of the four, two of them are three year guys (and if Robinson redshirts that would be four). To me, that isn't a sign of doubling down
2.) Going after JUCO kids is not a bad thing
This might be one of, if not the, things that disappoints me the most from the Weis era. A lot of KU fans I know don't want to go after JUCO kids because of what happened under Weis and the position we are in now because of that gamble. At the same time, we have had some pretty solid kids at KU come from the JUCO ranks. The key for this is two fold - A.) understand your roster situation better than Weis did B.) go after the "right" JUCO kids. Looking at A.) - an example of this is we can't go after ten 2-year JUCO kids next year or we will be in a numbers crunch again really soon because of how the roster is setup. Looking at B.) I think after next year you start going after 3 - 5 JUCO kids per 25 man class and really do some due diligence on these kids to make sure they can handle D1 life. Hopefully by then we are getting in a position where we can take JUCO guys that compliment what we already have or are guys that we struggle recruiting out of HS and are not taking a JUCO guy because of need.
So in the 2017 class, if we are taking a bunch of JUCO kids, I will go nuts because to me it is a sign of further panic and isn't a smart move with our roster breakdown. But after then, going after JUCOs isn't a bad thing. Watch how some of these new coaches handle the situation the next few years. They are targetting JUCO kids initially for different reasons. Maybe none of them go crazy with JUCO guys like we did under Weis...but if they do, go ahead and put down a bet that that coach won't be at that school much longer...
